Binita Mehta, 22, is a graduate from Warwick University, Chair of Hertfordshire Conservative Future and an active campaigner in Watford, working at think tank British Future. She tweets at @BinitaMehta90
On this, Burns Night 2013, the last before referendum year, let us reflect that an independent Scotland would not only affect Scots, but also those around Britain with Scottish heritage.
Robert Burns Day, or indeed any day celebrating Scottish history, is important to me given my own Scottish family history. My dad and his side of the family are from Glasgow, where he was brought up and attended university; therefore being part Scottish informs my strong British identity.
From a young age, my dad supporting Rangers, teaching me the meaning of Auld Lang Syne, speaking fondly of his upbringing on Great Western Road and calling his friends Jimmy, showed me that my feeling of Britishness had a rich base, and wasn’t just a mistaken use of the term English.
Because of this, I feel that it would definitely affect me if Scotland became independent, as the city where my father grew up and was educated would become part of a separate, different country. Of course, if the Scots do vote in support of an independent Scotland in 2014, I totally respect that it is their decision to make, but I would be regretful of that choice.
I spoke to some friends who, like me, live in England but have Scottish background and heritage, asking them how they feel about Anglo-Scottish identity and whether a dis-United Britain would affect them.
Stuart Shevlin, 19, who is currently studying in North Carolina, shares my views.
“I was born in Scotland, in Aberdeen, and moved to Stonehaven as a kid. My Mum and my brother are also Scottish, as are two of my grandparents. I usually identify myself as Scottish, I’m definitely proud to be from there! I’m pretty sceptical about independence and from a sentimental point of view; the breakup of the union of the United Kingdom is a prospect that fills me with concern. I realise though, that the sentiment of many Scottish people is the exact opposite. What worries me the most is that the Scottish independence campaign seems purely based on these patriotic feelings.”
Charlie Douglas, 24 from Sutton Coldfield, said:
“I’ve lived all my life in England, born to a Welsh father and an English mother. However, despite this, I’ve always considered myself more Scottish than Welsh. Part of this, I think, is the fact that my father’s father was Jamaican, and his mother was some sort of welsh born, Irish/Ghanaian/St. Lucian hybrid. So, there isn’t a huge amount of history in the country. On my mother’s side, however, there’s English and Scottish, both pretty pure. All my extended family come from the Scottish side of this, and for the most part are originally based in a small town called Tain, about an hour north of Inverness so I’ve seen a lot of the Scottish culture that way, building my affinity towards it.
“I think it would be a shame for Scotland to leave the UK, not just because of all the political and economic implications that would come about from ‘founding’ a new country, but also because I feel our history is so intertwined, and the current set up of four ‘united’ countries allows everyone to express their own cultural identities whilst remaining politically and economically united.”
Sinead Mead, 22 from Watford, who has studied at Aberdeen and Southampton universities, said that studying in Scotland added to her connection with her Scottish heritage.
“My mother and her side of the family are all originally from Coatbridge, and my mum is fiercely protective of her Scottish heritage and point blank refused to lose her accent, despite more than 30 years spent in Watford since moved down in the 70s as a newly qualified nurse to pursue a work opportunity. I think she always considered Scotland to be her home and so moved back up to just over 3 years ago.”
“From what I’ve found, the Scots, much like the Welsh and Irish identify themselves mainly as not English. I think if Scotland were to go independent, they certainly wouldn’t be giving us neighbourly votes in the Eurovision song contest. I think in most cases the anti-English stance that many Scottish people adopt is more of a friendly rivalry than a genuine dislike, but not always. For example, cheering when England is kicked out of the World cup is little more than a bit petulant, but when you’re frequently asked “you know the problem with you English…?”, the resentment towards our country can be felt quite strongly.
“In terms of Scottish independence, I wouldn’t like Scotland to be independent. Although it would have no direct impact on me, I do have a many fond memories of Scotland having spent many school holidays in Coatbridge, and so for Scotland to ask for a divorce, would sting a little.”
Charis Tyndall, 22, was born in Edinburgh and moved to Dunbar when she was 4. She now studies at the University of Warwick.
“I still live in Dunbar now and hadn’t spent any real time in England until my gap year. I think Scottish independence would be a terrible thing, although more autonomy and freedom to create more of our own legislation wouldn’t go amiss.
“My parents voted SNP in the last election, but they don’t agree with the policies on independence either.”
Mark Orton, 21 and also from Watford, also has a Scottish mother.
“My mum was born in Paisley, her father being a native Scot and her mum from Donegal in Ireland, but moved to Scotland when she was in her late teens, like much of the Irish community in Scotland, to find work. Most of my mother’s side of the family lives in Scotland now, so my Scottish heritage is hugely important to me just because it’s been a big part of my life. Ever since I was young I’ve travelled up to Scotland at least annually and memories of Scotland form a large part of my childhood recollections, like staying in Paisley over Christmas and staying with one of my uncles at his house on the southern shore of Loch Lomond and walking around the countryside there. Certainly my family ties to Scotland mean that although I identify primarily as English (and British), I would always say that I am ‘part Scottish’ as it were.
“I think for my Mum, Scottish heritage is even more important to her now that she lives in Watford. The physical distance means that she holds onto her heritage with a bit more force (this is probably manifest mainly in the way that she maintains an interest in Scottish news and political affairs a bit more strongly than she would if she didn’t live there). Having said that, I think that being married to a ‘non-Scot’ and having two non-Scottish children means she is more inclined to regard herself as a Brit. I think living in that kind of space where she has family ties in different locations gives her more of a synoptic perspective.
“For my Scottish family, having familial ties all over the UK probably precludes their taking the independent stance. It would seem slightly acerbic on their part to push for independence, which would render them citizens of a nation completely apart from their relatives, with whom they’ve shared status as UK citizens for so long.
“For my part I’m staunchly anti-independence. I feel that if Scotland were to become independent I’d feel a bit strange really, like the physical distance between me and my relatives had become a bit more pronounced somehow.”
Cameron Wauchope, 22 from Essex, is Scottish on ‘both sides’:
“My dad is from Paisley and my mum was raised in various places including Edinburgh and Larg. I normally visit Scotland three times a year and my whole family are Scots. I don’t think of myself as English, despite living here all my life, but British. I always have. I am proud of being British and have a great respect for all countries of our great isles.
“It makes me very sad to think that my country may be tearing itself apart. I like Britain, and hope it is still here in its current state for years to come.”
Virahn Walia, 33 from London, said:
“My mother was raised in Scotland with her 2 brothers, brought over by my grandparents from India when they were very young. They strongly see themselves as scots and we regularly visited Scotland. My grandfather was a strong supporter of embracing the country and the Scottish culture as well as ensuring the Asian culture thrived alongside. I think it would be a shame to lose Scotland; Scotland is a big part of what makes Britain great it will be a huge loss to Britain if it parted, but having said that, I do support their right to let them have their own say.”
A long-time family friend from Glasgow, Spencer Hagard, 70, now living in Cambridge, feels that having studied at university in Scotland and living there for 16 years from 1961 to 1977 with a year in London and a couple of years in Uganda, means being Scottish is certainly a part of his identity.
“I went to school in England, but was educated in Scotland” he is proud to state, and on independence believes “ultimately that people must make their own choices. When the Scots come to a conclusion, it must be an informed choice. We have to trust electorates to make the choice they consider best.”
Quite, but I do hope that at the end of next year, I am able to retain my sense of Britishness and maintain the ability to celebrate my Scottish and English roots within that.
Happy Burns Day everyone!
Fair fa’ your honest, sonsie face,
Great chieftain o’ the puddin-race!
19 comments
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Wildgoose
January 25, 2013 at 9:38 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
I’m afraid that once again we have an article that seems to think that the only voices worth hearing about the upcoming Scottish Independence Referendum are those either from Scotland or with a close connection to it.
Despite our having 10 times the Scottish population, not one of the 9 people interviewed identified themselves with England and the English.
So to redress that somewhat, here is my contribution.
I am English, as are my parents and my grandparents. My Great-Grandmother was Irish, but as far as my father’s attempts to trace our family tree go, that is the only contribution to my family tree that is not English as far back as the 17th Century. My surname is one of the oldest English surnames.
Despite being solidly English, like most English people I grew up as primarily “British”, seeing myself part of the “British” family. That changed after Devolution. Since then, the contempt that the British political classes have for the English has been made very clear, aided and abetted by a sizeable percentage of the populations of other “British” nations. Sinead’s contribution accurately identifies the problem. These are people who do not see themselves as “British AND Scots/Welsh/Irish”, but rather as “NOT English”.
Unfortunately, those Scots, Welsh and Irish who do feel that the “British” sum is greater than its constituent parts also patronise the English and assume that because they feel that a continuing United Kingdom is so obviously worthwhile, it must be worth almost any kind of sacrifice on behalf of the English alone. No contribution towards the continuation of Britishness is required from Scots, Irish or Welsh, rather just more demands are made from England in order that they will agree to remain within the UK for a little longer. Or at least until another Devolutionary Demand is made.
Before Devolution, English nationalism was non-existent. It is now growing and yet the English are still being ignored. The Union will only survive for as long as the English are prepared to pay for it. Are you so sure that the benefits for people in England actually outweigh the costs?
OU Editors
January 25, 2013 at 9:41 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
This is a piece about people with Anglo-Scottish identity and their take on separation. It does not imply that theirs is the only opinion that counts, beyond the simple fact that they are its chosen subject.
Paul Turner
January 25, 2013 at 10:13 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
There are no benefits for us English, Wildgoose. As for all these people who are happy to live in England, but identify themselves as anything but English, they’re just a bunch of arrogant, racist invaders and colonisers. They ought to barred from England for the rest of their lives.
By the way, who will be expected to pay for the next stage of devolution? Will it be us English, by any chance? Stupid question.
OU Editors
January 25, 2013 at 10:28 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
I’m going to assume that comment was directed at people other than those in the article above (none of whom identify as “anything but English”), else I would have to block it.
Michele
January 25, 2013 at 11:56 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
“I don’t think of myself as English, despite living here all my life”
“I’ve lived all my life in England, born to a Welsh father and an English mother. However, despite this, I’ve always considered myself more Scottish than Welsh”
“the Scots, much like the Welsh and Irish identify themselves mainly as not English.”
So Wildgoose had a point; and yes I realise it is primarily aimed at Burns Night – are we going to see a similar article seeking the English point of view just before April 23?
I don’t think you have grasped the reality of the situation yet – if you really want this union to continue, you need to sell it to the English. You might be able to douse the little grassfire of Scottish independence, but if in doing so you ignite the raging bush fire of English Independence your union is truly sunk.
OU Editors
January 25, 2013 at 6:54 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
We can only print what we get. If somebody who is pro-union does a Saint George’s Day article for us, we’d happily print it. If somebody who is pro-union but supports an English Parliament wants to do an article on that, we’d be interested in it. If we don’t get such articles, they don’t get published.
Sarah
January 26, 2013 at 8:08 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
The site is largely aimed at Scotland and Northern Ireland, England and Wales don’t get mentioned much, so you’re probably not likely to see one.
OU Editors
January 26, 2013 at 3:14 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
They don’t get mentioned much because we don’t have writers.
This isn’t an idle concern. We’ve tried to get both – we advertised specifically for an ‘England editor’ at one point, to collate England-related news items of relevance and write articles. No takers. We’ve bent over backwards to get Welsh commentary, with very little result. Similarly, we are having a devil of a time finding left-of-centre or liberal commentators, again despite sustained recruitment efforts.
This is a contribution based website. The editors do all the behind the scenes work (responsibilities roughly divided between the blog and social media) but neither write for it very often. We are pleased to have the writer base we have but are conscious of the gaps in our coverage and do want to close them up. But we can’t conjure pro-union English devolutionaries from thin air.
Colin
January 25, 2013 at 6:07 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Anyone who identifies as English, but calls others “arrogant, racist invaders and colonisers” clearly doesn’t grasp much of English (and British) history
Food for thought
Paul Turner
January 26, 2013 at 10:28 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
You’re condemning us English (but never the people from the UK’s other nations) for what happened in the British (not English) Empire generations ago, long before the birth of anyone living now. In a post-imperial age, invasion and colonisation shouldn’t happen, but the British government encourages all and sundry to colonise England alone.
If only the Normans’ first stop in these islands had been Scotland. That way, they would have established Scotland as their primary base, and someone other than us Engllish would have taken the unjustified blame for the conquering done by the Normans and their descendants in the British ruling classes.
oneill
January 25, 2013 at 5:42 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
“… not one of the 9 people interviewed identified themselves with England and the English.”
David,
Having enjoyed and (occasionally) agreed with your prior contributions on here and elsewhere before I nevertheless think youáve been guilty of reading what you’ve expected to read from a Unionist contributor instead of what was actually there.
Three quotes from three separate people:
Certainly my family ties to Scotland mean that although I identify *primarily as English (and British)*, I would always say that I am ‘part Scottish’ as it were.
Quite, but I do hope that at the end of next year, I am able to retain my sense of Britishness and maintain the ability to celebrate my Scottish and *English* roots within that.
For example, cheering when England is kicked out of the World cup is little more than a bit petulant, but when you’re frequently asked “you know the problem with *you English*…?”, the resentment towards our country can be felt quite strongly.
In each case my “*”!.
My identity is a mixture (British, Irish and regional Ulster); others in NI have Irish only NI only and British, some like me have a mixture. It doesn’t make my Britishness or irishness any less worthy than theirs, merely because they don’t feel respectively any trace of either Irishness or Britishness. Similarly if someone feels that their Englishness is an integral part of a bigger identity I don’t think that diminishes their Englishness merely because they don’t see it as a standalone.
It’s the big mistake the SNP made, dictating that you can either be Scottish or British and they were hellbent on enforcing that choice on the Scottish census. Probably lucky for them that they failed.
Juteman
January 26, 2013 at 1:18 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
“Quite, but I do hope that at the end of next year, I am able to retain my sense of Britishness and maintain the ability to celebrate my Scottish and English roots within that.”
You can retain whatever identity you want. Hopefully, i’ll be living in an idependant Scotland, but will still enjoy living in Britain. Unless there is some dastardly plan to cut the island in half, and move part of it to Australia?
OU Editors
January 26, 2013 at 3:10 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Ah ha. You made a witticism out of pretending not to recognise the distinction between the British state/community/identity and the island. You card.
Juteman
January 26, 2013 at 4:28 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
A wittisism? How very dare you, you scoundrel!
Maybe i’m weird, but i look forward to being an independent Scot in Britain. Maybe then we can be good neighbours, without stupid arguements about who is paying for who.
OU Editors
January 26, 2013 at 5:32 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
I prefer to work towards a Britain where English and Scot, both counting themselves British, can be good family, and forgo stupid arguments about who is paying for whom.
Juteman
January 26, 2013 at 6:32 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
We at least agree that we will both be living in Britain. As an ex soldier in the British Army, i was proud of my traditions. As i will be proud to be a Scot in an independent Scotland.
The who/whom arguement is a different subject.
OU Editors
January 26, 2013 at 11:39 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
At least we will both be living ‘on’ Britain, I don’t share your belief that a common British identity can well survive disunity.
Paul Turner
January 27, 2013 at 4:49 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
So Britishness needs a British state to survive. In other words, Britishness is a purely political entity, while Englishness, Scottishness, Welshness, Irishness and even Cornishness are emotional and cultural identities. I prefer something that’s organic (i.e. real) rather than something that only came about because monarchs and their ministers put their signatures on documents to finalise Acts of Parliament that were never put to the people of these islands for their approval or otherwise.
Yes, we can have a friendship, based on a common thread of being from the island of Great Britain, or speaking the same language, or being fellow Europeans, for example, but we don’t need the state of the UK of GB & NI to achieve this.
OU Editors
January 27, 2013 at 8:52 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
I dispute your definition of ‘real’. England, Scotland et al are all political creations too – they are just much older ones. The realm of England is the product of various waves of conquest, assimilation and integration, as carved out in bloody wars by several entirely pre-national monarchical houses. England is herself a Union, albeit one achieved by simple conquest and long centuries of elite oppression rather than acts of parliament. So is Scotland, and so are Wales and Ireland – and so too were Mercia, Northumberia, and Wessex. In the past the Kingdom of England has encompassed all of Wales and much of southern Scotland. The modern borders, which define your ‘reality’, are the product of truces between rival groups of armed nobles.
Britain is newer, and its identity is thus more fragile. It was built around the notion of great projects – first the Empire, latterly the ‘New Jerusalem’ – and fell into crisis with the failure of those. The Union is no more ‘artificial’ than any other political entity on this archipelago.